"It's possible to criticize and raise questions about pediatric gender medicine today in a way that was not possible even six months ago. We have definitely turned a corner."
"It's possible to criticize and raise questions about pediatric gender medicine today in a way that was not possible even six months ago. We have definitely turned a corner."
Leor Sapir on testifying before the Texas legislature in support of bans on pediatric sex trait modification and the state of the contest to rein in the ongoing scandal of pediatric gender medicine
I didn’t expect to listen to the entire podcast but there was so much specific and useful information that I stayed with the whole thing.
As a Democrat from my first vote in 1972 until I became Independent in 2016, this issue is ethically inescapable for me. I know when something smells of corruption and dishonesty from top to bottom, and gender-identity as a political and pseudo-scientific lens simply reeks of doctrinaire reasoning and monetary incentives. When I hear an “expert” repeatedly dodge a reasonable yes/no question to avoid admitting that’s she’s got no tool but a hammer and thus sees every kid as a nail, those kids are not in good hands. She should lose her professional credentials and be banned from practicing. As should, I’m afraid, a host of psychologists, counselors, and doctors. At the same time, drug companies profiting obscenely from the hormone trade foisted on kids need to be investigated and severely punished.
To be clear, I see this as a capitalist issue coupled with a madness issue. Democrats appear to have lost their minds on gender, and I don’t have confidence that Republicans will be willing to stand up to the pharmaceutical industry. Unlike 99.99% of Democrats, I’m an actual Marxist. I don’t trust either major party and getting my trust at this point is likely beyond the ability of either one. But if I were a single issue voter, this one would win my vote for the GOP.
At the end it was discouraging to hear that you could be having this same conversation in 10 years.
The answer is to hold medical associations responsible is by telling physicians who aren’t involved in medicalizing kids...what’s actually happening. This is going to end sooner than predicted. Don’t underestimate a mother with a mission. And resources to tell physicians what’s actually happening to kids, at not just gender clinics but at naturopathic facilities and Planned Parenthood, etc. on the west coast. Anyone with a DEA license can write a script for T.
Last year I was terrified to say what I actually thought about my concerns regarding pushing the fast track to T onto my 14 year old daughter at OHSU bc I was worried about my parental rights bc I live in Oregon but now I think it’s complicit to stay silent. My daughter did not go on T I had to outfox the gender clinic, the drs and even my own husband. It was really hard but parents have to tell OHSU Pediatric Trans Clinic and pediatric psychiatrists that they are documenting every conversation and will go to the press if needed when a psychiatrist says “at age 15, kids sign their own consent”. Parents need to ask to see suicide studies if some moron doc quotes a 41% stat you better be ready to show that to me. We need a lot more brave people like Julia Mason, MD, Sapir, Yang, Single, etc. This is going to end soon. I have to have hope bc the other option is horrific.
It reminds me of McCarthyism. I wish some intellectuel would compare the 2 movements bc that would be interesting. Sometimes things just fall apart when least expected.
Even a year ago this was mostly on the DL. Too much information has come out.
Tell everyone you know if you had to deal with OHSU or a pediatrician tries to refer your kid to a gender clinic.
Call Dr. Erica Anderson if it’s a true 🆘 that’s what I did. I have the resources and I was warned before I had to deal with this in my own family. I caught all the breaks and it was still a major feat to shut it down with the “if you don’t put your ‘trans son’ on T it’s like ignoring cancer”. I was married to a physician and had to do all my own research and explain it to him bc he didn’t even take the time to look up side effects of testosterone on Up to Date.
My daughter isn’t interested in any medical interventions now bc she had a year to grow up.
This breaks up marriages, friendships etc. Even estranges family members. But you also learn who to trust and who isn’t capable of critical thinking.
I miss being a naïve little liberal progressive. I was so innocent before this.
It was really interesting hearing Leor Sapir’s take on Dr. Laura Edwards-Leeper. I got in with her for multiple parent appointments and she told us exactly what to expect from OHSU. She is doing a lot to help parents and kids avoid fast track gender clinics. She is an excellent clinical psychologist who fits almost every parent into her extremely busy schedule. She always included parents in discussions about our teens and young adults. Just like a clinical psychologist would do with an ADHD diagnosis or an autism diagnosis. In any other area of medicine parents are considered the best sources for supporting our children...except a trans identity. Then they ignore our input and explain how much better they know our own children than we do.
Also, I got my daughter in with her. It took me a year and my daughter is not interested in medical interventions now. Dr. Edwards-Leeper was the only clinician who was honest about the side effects of cross sex hormones. Even though she’s not a medical doctor. MDs tend to not even know or don’t want to explain the side effects of medical interventions like cross sex hormones and puberty blockers.
I've listened to most of this. A wonderfully discerning and informative dialogue. I can't tell you how important these conversations are to me. Just knowing that you guys are on it, deeply invested in it and deeply informed about the issues, helps keep me sane. I can't believe I'm the only one who has this reaction. For example: the way Leor sketched out who the contemporary Republican party contains--the wide range, from hard crazies at one extreme to what I might call lapsed or extruded progressives who realize that on certain issue they need to make a temporary accommodation or alliance with the R's. I've always voted D, but have come to consider myself an Independent over the past decade--and now recognize myself in Leor's sketch. Incredibly enlightening, the way you shared a bit of the testimony from the head of the TPA (the trans-affirming pschologist) and then, very clearly and reasonably, took her testimony apart. This particular dialogue helped remind me why I'm a subscriber. Yes: crazy-long, but every bit of it shows active thought and serious dialogue. Please continue.
Jazz Jenning was born October 6, 2000....she underwent genital surgery before 18.
"In an interview published in the April 11, 2018, issue of People, Jennings said that, per her surgeons' instructions, she had lost at least 30 pounds (14 kg) in order to have gender reassignment surgery, which was scheduled for June 20, 2018.[48] The surgery was successful,[49] but was followed by complications that required another procedure.[50] The surgery was performed by Dr. Jess Ting and Dr. Marci Bowers."
I think it's a misunderstanding of the role of interest groups like the ACLU to believe they have to be responsible or responsive to public opinion in any direct way. Often, their role is to encourage change in public opinion, policies, legislation, the law and society in general. Of course, over time they can gain or lose influence due to the ebb and flow of public opinion, the rightness or wrongness , consistency or inconsistency of their positions, their public reputation and the donors they win or lose. I don't think there are forces that inherently impel them to radicalism. The opposite can certainly occur. One can certainly be critical of the ACLU's current position on gender issues but to argue that the cure is to make the ACLU bend to public sentiment is reactionary and dangerous. That's not at all what the ACLU or any advocate for change should do.
I didn’t expect to listen to the entire podcast but there was so much specific and useful information that I stayed with the whole thing.
As a Democrat from my first vote in 1972 until I became Independent in 2016, this issue is ethically inescapable for me. I know when something smells of corruption and dishonesty from top to bottom, and gender-identity as a political and pseudo-scientific lens simply reeks of doctrinaire reasoning and monetary incentives. When I hear an “expert” repeatedly dodge a reasonable yes/no question to avoid admitting that’s she’s got no tool but a hammer and thus sees every kid as a nail, those kids are not in good hands. She should lose her professional credentials and be banned from practicing. As should, I’m afraid, a host of psychologists, counselors, and doctors. At the same time, drug companies profiting obscenely from the hormone trade foisted on kids need to be investigated and severely punished.
To be clear, I see this as a capitalist issue coupled with a madness issue. Democrats appear to have lost their minds on gender, and I don’t have confidence that Republicans will be willing to stand up to the pharmaceutical industry. Unlike 99.99% of Democrats, I’m an actual Marxist. I don’t trust either major party and getting my trust at this point is likely beyond the ability of either one. But if I were a single issue voter, this one would win my vote for the GOP.
At the end it was discouraging to hear that you could be having this same conversation in 10 years.
The answer is to hold medical associations responsible is by telling physicians who aren’t involved in medicalizing kids...what’s actually happening. This is going to end sooner than predicted. Don’t underestimate a mother with a mission. And resources to tell physicians what’s actually happening to kids, at not just gender clinics but at naturopathic facilities and Planned Parenthood, etc. on the west coast. Anyone with a DEA license can write a script for T.
Last year I was terrified to say what I actually thought about my concerns regarding pushing the fast track to T onto my 14 year old daughter at OHSU bc I was worried about my parental rights bc I live in Oregon but now I think it’s complicit to stay silent. My daughter did not go on T I had to outfox the gender clinic, the drs and even my own husband. It was really hard but parents have to tell OHSU Pediatric Trans Clinic and pediatric psychiatrists that they are documenting every conversation and will go to the press if needed when a psychiatrist says “at age 15, kids sign their own consent”. Parents need to ask to see suicide studies if some moron doc quotes a 41% stat you better be ready to show that to me. We need a lot more brave people like Julia Mason, MD, Sapir, Yang, Single, etc. This is going to end soon. I have to have hope bc the other option is horrific.
It reminds me of McCarthyism. I wish some intellectuel would compare the 2 movements bc that would be interesting. Sometimes things just fall apart when least expected.
Even a year ago this was mostly on the DL. Too much information has come out.
Tell everyone you know if you had to deal with OHSU or a pediatrician tries to refer your kid to a gender clinic.
Call Dr. Erica Anderson if it’s a true 🆘 that’s what I did. I have the resources and I was warned before I had to deal with this in my own family. I caught all the breaks and it was still a major feat to shut it down with the “if you don’t put your ‘trans son’ on T it’s like ignoring cancer”. I was married to a physician and had to do all my own research and explain it to him bc he didn’t even take the time to look up side effects of testosterone on Up to Date.
My daughter isn’t interested in any medical interventions now bc she had a year to grow up.
This breaks up marriages, friendships etc. Even estranges family members. But you also learn who to trust and who isn’t capable of critical thinking.
I miss being a naïve little liberal progressive. I was so innocent before this.
It was really interesting hearing Leor Sapir’s take on Dr. Laura Edwards-Leeper. I got in with her for multiple parent appointments and she told us exactly what to expect from OHSU. She is doing a lot to help parents and kids avoid fast track gender clinics. She is an excellent clinical psychologist who fits almost every parent into her extremely busy schedule. She always included parents in discussions about our teens and young adults. Just like a clinical psychologist would do with an ADHD diagnosis or an autism diagnosis. In any other area of medicine parents are considered the best sources for supporting our children...except a trans identity. Then they ignore our input and explain how much better they know our own children than we do.
Also, I got my daughter in with her. It took me a year and my daughter is not interested in medical interventions now. Dr. Edwards-Leeper was the only clinician who was honest about the side effects of cross sex hormones. Even though she’s not a medical doctor. MDs tend to not even know or don’t want to explain the side effects of medical interventions like cross sex hormones and puberty blockers.
Updated the intro on the audio -- you may be want to redownload
Past time to remove tax exempt status for ALL NGOs, charities, think tanks, C3s, higher Ed., etc.
I would appreciate if listeners share the timestamps of their favorite moments so I can post excerpts on Twitter
I've listened to most of this. A wonderfully discerning and informative dialogue. I can't tell you how important these conversations are to me. Just knowing that you guys are on it, deeply invested in it and deeply informed about the issues, helps keep me sane. I can't believe I'm the only one who has this reaction. For example: the way Leor sketched out who the contemporary Republican party contains--the wide range, from hard crazies at one extreme to what I might call lapsed or extruded progressives who realize that on certain issue they need to make a temporary accommodation or alliance with the R's. I've always voted D, but have come to consider myself an Independent over the past decade--and now recognize myself in Leor's sketch. Incredibly enlightening, the way you shared a bit of the testimony from the head of the TPA (the trans-affirming pschologist) and then, very clearly and reasonably, took her testimony apart. This particular dialogue helped remind me why I'm a subscriber. Yes: crazy-long, but every bit of it shows active thought and serious dialogue. Please continue.
Fantastic conversation. Please talk to him again.....
Great conversation.
Jazz Jenning was born October 6, 2000....she underwent genital surgery before 18.
"In an interview published in the April 11, 2018, issue of People, Jennings said that, per her surgeons' instructions, she had lost at least 30 pounds (14 kg) in order to have gender reassignment surgery, which was scheduled for June 20, 2018.[48] The surgery was successful,[49] but was followed by complications that required another procedure.[50] The surgery was performed by Dr. Jess Ting and Dr. Marci Bowers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_Jennings
Faith + interest = movement.
This was an outstanding conversation. Thank you so much for making it widely available!
Awesome
This is hilarious.
I think it's a misunderstanding of the role of interest groups like the ACLU to believe they have to be responsible or responsive to public opinion in any direct way. Often, their role is to encourage change in public opinion, policies, legislation, the law and society in general. Of course, over time they can gain or lose influence due to the ebb and flow of public opinion, the rightness or wrongness , consistency or inconsistency of their positions, their public reputation and the donors they win or lose. I don't think there are forces that inherently impel them to radicalism. The opposite can certainly occur. One can certainly be critical of the ACLU's current position on gender issues but to argue that the cure is to make the ACLU bend to public sentiment is reactionary and dangerous. That's not at all what the ACLU or any advocate for change should do.